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Politics & Media
Aug 28, 2025, 06:26AM

The End of Israel

Palestine will be free.

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Judaism is a religion, not a race. Jews have no more exclusive right to the Holy Land than Christians, say, or Rastafarians. There are black Jews, Mideastern Jews, white western Jews, mixed-race Jews. You can convert. Many people have converted throughout history, and, while Jewish identity is effectively policed these days, through the matrilineal line, there’s no saying who may have converted in the past, nor what their ethnic origins might be.

Likewise, the Bible is symbolic, not literal. It’s myth, not history. There probably never was a King David or a King Solomon. There probably never was a Moses or an Abraham. If any of these characters ever existed, they’ve been mythologized: like Hercules, Ulysses or Jason and the Argonauts. Biblical stories aren’t facts, but they tell certain truths. They carry hidden messages. They are parables, allegories, metaphors. The promises contained in the books of the Bible have to be understood spiritually. God wasn’t offering his people a piece of real estate, but a state of mind. The promised land should be understood figuratively, as something that’s yearned for, hoped for, wished for, longed for, in the recesses of the soul, but never fought for, never killed for.

To be a Jew you have to follow the Torah. The Torah specifically prohibits a number of actions. You shall not kill. You shall not steal. You shall not covet. You shall not bear false witness. God’s promises are conditional. If you do any of these things you’ve broken the covenant. You’re not a Jew. The promises are made null and void by the breaking of the Law. Therefore the people of Israel (most of them) aren’t Jews. They break the Law every day.

They are Zionists. Judaism is an ancient religion, dating back to the Bronze Age, while Zionism is a political ideology, no more than 130 years old. It takes the politics of racism and nationalism and dresses it up in religious clothing. Many of the early Zionists were atheists. They didn’t believe in God, and yet they laid claim to the land of Israel as promised to them by God.

Zionism is a settler colonial project aimed at stealing the land from the indigenous population, many of whom have historical roots going back centuries, if not millennia. The Palestinians are the descendants of Canaanites, Philistines, Samaritans, Jews, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Crusaders: all the people who’ve criss-crossed this strip of land, at the crossroads of the world between Egypt and the Fertile Crescent, and left their DNA behind. They are the children of Israel who never left, a Semitic people, speaking Arabic, one of a nest of Semitic languages that defines the population group. Zionism aims at removing these original people, and replacing them with settlers. It’s a supremacist ideology. Zionists believe they’re superior. They see other people—specifically Palestinians—as less than human. “Human animals” as Yoav Gallant, the former Israeli defence minister called them.

Many settlers have dual nationality: that is, they already have homelands of their own. They’re from all over the world—North America, South America, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Asia, everywhere but Palestine—but the Israeli “Law of Return” allows them to settle in this stolen land, while Palestinians, born in Palestine, but driven from the land in one of the many pogroms, have no such right.

People say that the Israel-Palestine conflict is complex and intractable, and it’s difficult, but the solution lies within the world’s grasp. Israel only exists because of the military backing of the West. Once the West removes its backing, Israel will fall. This is why we should do our best to undermine Western support for Israel, to question our governmental and institutional investment in Israel, to enact BDS: Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions. BDS brought down apartheid South Africa. It’ll bring down apartheid Israel too.

States don’t have a right to exist. People have a right to exist. Afrikaner rule in South Africa is no more. The Soviet Union is no more. Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, South Vietnam, East Germany: many states have fallen in the last century. Nullified by history. The people are still there, but their identity has changed. The same will happen to Israel. Israel is the illegitimate bastard child of British and American Imperialism, inserted into the Middle East to control the world’s supply of oil, and to keep the nearby states in check. Its days are numbered. It has proved itself to be violently anti-social in its nature. We should no more allow a psychopathic state to exist than we would allow a society of pedophiles to start recruiting children.

All terrorist groups need to be disbanded. That includes the IDF, one of the greatest terrorist armies in the world. An international force with the full authorisation of the United Nations should be brought in to take their place. There can only be a one-state solution. Israelis with dual nationality can elect to return to their homes, or remain in Palestine as law-abiding citizens, subject to the democratic rule of the majority. Native-born Israelis, too, should be given the choice, whether to continue to live in Palestine under international law, or be received into one of the western nations that have previously given Israel such unquestioning support. The law of return should be revoked and Palestinians granted the right of return. There should be freedom of religion and all peoples who lay claim to the various covenants of the region should be allowed to worship: Jew, Samaritan, Druze, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Alawite, Sufi, Ismaili, Sunni, Shia. No religion should be allowed to dominate another.

How any of this can happen is another matter. The confusion between the idea of the promised land as a piece of real estate, and the Holy Land as a state of mind, is one that bedevils us all. You can’t, ultimately, own anything. We should savor every moment alive, every passing beauty—every shaft of sunlight through the trees, every bird’s call, every breath of air that stirs the leaves—but know that we can’t hold on to any of it. Its secret is in the moment, a wealth more enriching than all the gold in Fort Knox, but as insubstantial as the breeze. This is where the Holy Land truly lies, not in substance, but in feeling: not in ownership but in what we give away, freely, from the generosity of our hearts.

Discussion
  • There are no colonizing settlers; half the Jews in Israel are refugees from Moslem oppression in Jordan, Syria, Egupt. Why do you deny Jews alone the right to be refugees? There is no stolen land. Jews purchased land. Then when attacked in the 6 day war they took more land as a buffer zone and for reparations. There are no Palistinians. Censuses done by Europeans in the 18th and 19th century show Israel, Gaza etc with low population density and many towns majority Jewish of Christian. Moslems not wanted by Jordan or Egypt were attracted by the Jewish economic activity as Israel was rebuilt, and their countries of origin do not want to allow them to return because they are often poor, unskilled, or from the wrong sects.

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  • For the purposes of clarity the Torah makes a distinction between killing and murder. In the original Hebrew the Torah says in the Ten Commandments Lo Tirtzach which means “Thou shalt not murder” not Lo Taharog which means “Thou shalt not kill”. In the Torah To kill a person in self defense or for capital punishment such as executing a premeditated murderer or killing an enemy during a time of war is in the category of a Lo Taharog or “killing” which the Torah permits. it is not a Lo Tirtzach which is in the category of “murder” defined as the deliberate or premeditated killing of an innocent person which is a violation of the tenets of the Ten Commandments. There is a larger discussion to be had on the brutalities of war with all its collateral damages, casualties and innocent victims. In war the lines between Lo Tahrog and Lo Tirtzach frequently become blurred which is why war should always be avoided if possible.

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  • I think the deliberate targetting of journalists and aid workers counts as murder, don't you? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80d2zrdj7vo

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  • Another thing that the Torah says is not to bear false witness. In other words, not to lie. But Israel lies all the time. An example of this is the false or distorted history repeated by BruceatLiberty, above. To take the items one by one. It's true that after the Nakba, the forced diisplacement of 750,000 Palestinians driven into exile by terrorist means, the Arab countries turned against Jews, but the mass exodus of Jews from these countries (where they had lived peacebly for millenia) was caused by a series of false flag atrocities committed by the Mossad. See Avi Shlaim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSZo5l-oS4o Jewish land purchase. Yes, they bought some land, but by 1948 the total land owned by Jews was 6.6%. "There are no Palestinians." Duh. To quote Wikipedia: "Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون, romanized: al-Filasṭīniyyūn) are an Arab ethnonational group native to the Levantine region of Palestine.[35][36][37][38] They represent a highly homogeneous community who share one cultural and ethnic identity,[39][40][41] speak Palestinian Arabic and share close religious, linguistic, and cultural ties with other Levantine Arabs." In other words, they've been around forever. Sure Arabs from other countries will have moved there too but, broadly speaking, the Palestinians are native to the land and many can trace their ancestry back for generations. "Many towns majority Jewish or Christian." Duh. Palestinian Christians are still Palestinians. List of Palestinian villages and towns depopulated during the Nakba: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1947%E2%80%931949_Palestine_war Israeli foundational myths, like the myths in the Bible, are just that: myths. Check out some of the Israeli historians who have questioned them: Benny Morris, Ilan Pappé, Avi Shlaim, Simha Flapan, Tom Segev, Hillel Cohen, Baruch Kimmerling, Joel Migdal, Idith Zertal, and Shlomo Sand.

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  • In Israel's recent war in Gaza as a response to the atrocities committed by Hama on Oct,7th who deliberately targeted and slaughtered innocent Israeli's, there have been many incidents carried out by the IDF that are beyond the pale so you won't get any arguments from me in that regard. According to the linked BBC article there were 6 terrorists killed in the IDF strike and one of them had purportedly taken part in the Oct,7th attacks. Were the journalists and workers killed deliberately or were they collateral damage as a result of their proximity to the terrorists who were targeted and killed. If it is the later case than that may not be defined as murder according to the Torah. I personally think it is reckless at the very least and indefensible. Like in so many wars throughout history overkill becomes an element of the conflict. At what point does overkill become mass murder and do larger objectives that may eventually lead to a more peaceful outcome justify the slaughter of the innocent? That has always been a tough sell for me which is why I take issue with parts of the Old Testament In particular the Book of Genesis and the story of Noah and the flood cleansing the earth of wickedness and in the Book of Deuteronomy with the destruction of the Canaanites. These biblical stories do suggest that slaughter in certain instances and under certain conditions is justified. This justification of mass killing has always been a bride too far for me both theologically as well as in many historical examples and present day occurrences.

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  • It was a double tap attack. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80d2zrdj7vo The IDF attacked that set of steps because Palestinian journalists hung out there to connect to the internet. There was a live feed going on. The camera belonged to Reuters. The IDF attacked the camera and then later claimed it was a Hamas camera. Later journalists came to cover the attack, along with aid workers. Once they had gathered there was a second attack. It was clearly aimed to take out journalists. This was the second time in a week that they targetted journalists. The first time (which is what I think you're referring to) they claimed one of the journalists was a Hamas operative. They gave no proof. It was an unevidenced accusation. Meanwhile they killed another five journalists at the same time. 242 journlists have been killed so far. It's "the single deadliest conflict for journalists in all known conflicts in the history of the world" according to the Costs of War Project. The only reason for killing journalists is to stop the world from hearing the truth. I call that murder. I can list many more cases where the IDF has deliberately attacked aid convoys, or civilians queing up for aid. There are examples of IDF marksmen taking pot shots at teenage boys queing up for aid. According to a British surgeon working in Gaza, there are “clear patterns of injury”, suggesting IDF soldiers are deliberately shooting Gazan children in different body parts depending on the day of the week. https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/israel-gaza-war-children-british-doctor-video-b2792054.html It's like a game to them. Anyone who thinks any of this is justified by what happened on October 7 really needs to take a good look at themselves. It's time this slaughter was brought to an end. We all need to play our part in this, but the actions of people in the United States are more crucial than anywhere else in the world, as it is your government that is bankrolling this, providing arms and equipment and moral support for what is clearly a genocide. https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide

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  • As I said in my last comment CJ the actions that the IDF have taken in Gaza recently are indefensible and I will add reprehensible. I would like to see a rapid end to the conflict in Gaza but I am not optimistic about that happening soon.... As far as the U.S bankrolling of Israel I have for years been against the U.S funding of Israel and getting involved in entangling alliances. The U.S has way too many problems within its own shores to deal with including a $37 trillion national debt.

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  • The most unintentionally hilarious line in this is, "To be a Jew you have to follow the Torah...Therefore the people of Israel (most of them) aren’t Jews." You're in way over your head here, CJ, as you have been from the beginning. This sort of child-like writing makes people into laughingstocks.

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  • https://youtu.be/v9bgFqDZYEs?si=WjPyEROkkSosEpid

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  • Feigning a lack of self-awareness to give yourself cover for a smug rejoinder is a recipe that went stale a very long time ago Subbeck. Exercise some humility; everything you have written on this topic has been hackneyed slop.

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  • "To be a Jew you have to follow the Torah" This just isn't true. there are lots of nonobservant Jews like me who don't follow the Torah.//telling Jewish people they aren't Jewish is antisemitic and generally bad.//more, it suggests that Jewish people can't commit evil acts, which just isn't true. Israel's genocide is horrific. The people committing it are Jews. There's no contradiction, because Jews are human, and can do good and bad and horrible things just like anyone else.

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  • I don't see what the contradiction is; people regularly call out fake Catholics or Muslims within their community who don't live up to the most basic of basic precepts of their holy texts. The Torah is a book and depending on the reader or reading the responses to a book can be very different or judged to be more or less legitimate. CJ is perfectly entitled to have his definition of what a Jewish person is.

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  • Because everyone is important and all opinions are valid! This is how children talk. Who are the fake Catholics? The ones who oppose abortion, as the Vatican does, of those who say it's the woman's choice? Depends on one's point of view. Who are the fake Muslims? Those who interpret the Quran literally, or those who don't? Once again, a matter of opinion. Only morons think they know who the fake Catholics and the fake Muslims are. For once, I'll agree with Noah Berlatsky, who knows much more about what being Jewish entails than I do.

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  • Just to say that I do have Rabbinical support for my views. Take this as an example: "Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah-centered understanding of our peoplehood with an armed materialism." https://www.truetorahjews.org/mission.html

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  • And again: "When They Act in Violence - That's NOT Judaism. Every military action, every oppressive policy, every violation of human rights by the Zionist state is a violation of Torah law. They do not represent us. They do not represent Judaism." https://torahjews.org/#truth

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  • Oh wow, there's a difference of opinion within a religion! I'm not even defending what israel's doing now, but you pretending to know who's a Jew and who isn't is so ludicrous. So how about a Catholic woman who gets an abortion? Is she still a Catholic?

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  • This kind of discourse is common and accepted. Someone claims to hold a certain belief called 'A', but repeatedly does an action that violates this belief. Even after you weight the surrounding context, you are unable to reconcile the action with their claim, so you suspect they never held belief 'A' in the first place.

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  • I remember you defending Israel's crimes from the beginning Beck.

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  • Don't try to change the topic, CJ. I asked you a simple question about Catholic abortion. Please answer it, since you are the self-appointed arbiter of who belongs in a religion and who doesn't.

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  • And for that matter, I remember you defending the crimes of Hamas from the beginning.

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  • In the interest of balance and perspective it is necessary to point out what has preceded Israel's recent actions in Gaza which have been widely condemned. The Hamas attacks of October 7th known as the Al Asqa Flood was a preplanned and well coordinated attack targeting Israeli civilians including women, children, the elderly and young concert attendees. 1200 Israeli's were killed in the attacks and 250 Israeli's were taken hostage including woman, children and the elderly. In addition to these atrocities there was widespread sex crimes against Israeli girls and women who were literally gang raped to death during the terror rampage perpetrated by Hamas. [See link].https://apnews.com/article/sexual-assault-hamas-oct-7-attack-rape-bb06b950bb6794affb8d468cd283bc51...The reaction to the Al Asqa Flood Hamas massacre in parts of Palestine was jubilation with people of all ages from young children to old women cheering in the streets and passing out candy in widespread celebration of the mass murder, rape and kidnapping of Israeli families. [See link] https://www.memri.org/tv/palestinians-gaza-west-bank-celebrate-october-seven-massacre-hand-out-sweets-fire-guns... This is not new for the people of Palestine as they have a long history of celebrating cafe attacks and bus bombings within Israel going back decades while also honoring the mass murdering suicide bombers by giving them a place of reverence within their communities by hanging banners of them along their main streets.... It is easy for many of us not living in Israel and who have not experienced the invasion of their country and the mass murder, rape and kidnapping of their families including women, children and the elderly to condemn the current actions of the IDF in Gaza and appropriately so because there is no justification for abuse of civilians regardless of what side is involved in the abuse. Psychologically though it is important to understand the mindset of those who were targeted for mass murder, rape and kidnapping as the Israeli's were and the celebratory behavior of Palestinian general population to the Hamas massacre. When your country, community and families are attacked as a defense mechanism you go into warrior mode. This does not excuse the current abuses by the IDF in Gaza but it does psychologically explain it.

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