Splicetoday

Politics & Media
Oct 22, 2024, 06:27AM

Where’s Daddy?

Israeli war crimes in Gaza.

Whatsapp image 2024 01 01 at 03.01.48 1 1704115851.jpeg.webp?ixlib=rails 2.1

This will be my last piece about the Israel-Palestine conflict for Splice Today. I’m old enough and wise enough to know that no one has ever changed their mind because of something they read on the internet.

People have opinions. They wear their opinions like badges. Their sense of identity is tied up with their opinions: their sense who they are. Take away their opinions, question them, and it’s like you are questioning their very identity. They become agitated and will hold onto what they believe with even greater ferocity, especially when the cognitive dissonance kicks in and it starts to look as if their thoughts may have been manipulated. No one wants to admit that they’ve been subjected to forces beyond their control.

I believe most people are sincere. They think they’re working for the good. The problem is that, in this age of mass media, amidst the vast ocean of misinformation and misdirection that characterizes the internet, it’s hard to know what’s real and what’s not, what’s truth and what’s propaganda. It’s particularly hard when the legacy media is owned and controlled by a very small number of uber-wealthy individuals who, broadly speaking, identify with the Israeli project. They also own and control much of the internet, which is awash with propaganda. We absorb all of what we see and hear unconsciously. We build up a picture of the world that fits in with what our rulers require, and we stitch this onto our sense of ourselves, onto our identity.

Israel has one of the best, most sophisticated propaganda networks in the world. Organizations like AIPAC in the United States, or the Labour and Conservative Friends of Israel in the UK (separate organizations but with the same purpose) are embedded in the political process. Often their funding sources are obscure, but can be traced back to Israel. There are Zionists in every newsroom, in every TV studio, throughout the western world. Not all of them are paid agents of the Israeli state—though many of them are—but if you want to get anywhere in the western media, it helps if you at least understand the world from the Israeli point of view: better still if you can learn to repeat Israeli talking points as if they were your own.

Our media manipulators are very clever. They know that people aren’t swayed by facts. Humans relate to story-lines more easily than we do to chaotic reality, and the facts can be twisted to tell whatever story is required. So a narrative is constructed, a Hollywood Western version of reality, with good guys and bad guys, easily identifiable by the color of their hats. So it was after October 7, 2023.

We all remember the horror stories that dominated the airways in the days and weeks following the events of that day. Mass murder of children. Beheaded babies. Babies in ovens. Babies on washing lines. Fetuses cut out of the mother’s womb. Torture. Mass rape. Unimaginable scenes of cruelty and barbarity described to us in horrifying detail. It doesn’t matter now that none of that was true, or that a significant number of Israelis were killed by their own side. What matters is that we absorbed those stories, they created a picture in our heads, and that this has allowed us to go along with what followed.

Even today you hear people repeating the mass rape story, for example, as if it was an established fact, when it has been questioned a number of times. That story came out later than the baby-atrocity stories. Israel needed a new narrative-line to boost its campaign. The New York Times duly obliged with its famous piece in December 2023: Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7. It did what it was supposed to do. It galvanised public opinion in favor of Israel once more, at a time when the world was beginning to grow weary of the scenes of horror and suffering emerging from Gaza. What the story purported to show was the systematic use of rape and sexualized violence by Hamas fighters as a weapon of war. But the findings are disputed. Much of the evidence came from questionable sources whose previous testimony, of baby-killing and mutilation, had already been shown to be false. In one particular case claims of rape were denied by the victim’s own family. Much of the evidence is circumstantial, and certainly not proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Hamas themselves deny the allegations, saying that their fighters are good Muslim men who wouldn’t engage in sexual violence. It’d be easy to scoff at this, but in the midst of battle how many fighters have time to drop their trousers to engage in sexual congress? Hamas have also called for an impartial investigation of the claims, something that Israel has consistently blocked.

This isn’t to say that rape did not occur. There was a second wave that swept into Southern Israel after the Hamas forces had brought down the fences. Most of these were civilians and a number of crimes were committed, but what hasn’t been shown is systematic rape. On April 24th, 2024 the UN refused to acknowledge the rape allegations against Hamas and didn’t include the group in the blacklist of parties guilty of sexual violence, due to the lack of credible evidence.

There’s also another explanation for the atrocities committed on October 7, provided by Norman Finkelstein, the great Jewish scholar and historian. He suggests the analogy of a slave revolt: people who had spent 17 years locked up in a cage and systematically abused, taking revenge upon their tormentors. He cites the example of Nat Turner’s Rebellion of 1831, in which atrocities occurred. It’s easy enough to condemn perpetrators of violence without looking into the background, but who are we to say what people who’ve suffered gross ill-treatment and humiliation over an extended period will do when released from captivity? Might we not do the same?

The one program I’d urge you to watch is Gaza by the Al Jazeera Investigations Unit. These are the same people who brought you October 7, a forensic analysis of everything that happened on that day. What’s remarkable about these films is that the material is freely available for all to find, including mainstream journalists in the legacy media. Why none of them have undertaken their own equally in-depth investigations is a question worth asking.

The Al Jazeera Investigations Unit is led by Richard Sanders, a documentary filmmaker who’d previously worked for Channel 4 in the UK. He’s thoroughly mainstream. You can watch him in conversation with Peter Oborne in this video. Oborne’s also about as mainstream as you can get, formerly the chief political commentator with The Daily Telegraph. These aren’t far-left agitators calling for the violent overthrow of the established order. They’re working journalists, trying to do their jobs.

The Gaza documentary is a catalogue of war crimes that’ve been openly committed by Israeli troops in Gaza. Not only did the soldiers commit these crimes, but they recorded themselves doing so, and then posted the videos on TikTok. Often the films are set to music, as if they were music videos, obviously for the entertainment of people back home.

The Israeli Defence Force (so-called) is one of the most advanced, high-tech armies in the world. They’ve used AI technology to pick their targets. The reason they’re employing AI, according to active members of the military speaking to 972 magazine, is to maximize their kill rate. The AI program, known as “Lavender,” will look at everything about a potential target—who they speak to, what they say on social media, who they consort with, who may be in the vicinity—and then give that person a number between 1-100. If the number’s above a certain figure, that person is listed and will be targeted.

Attached to this program is another. This is the program that decides where that person can be killed. The program is called “Where’s Daddy?” According to the theory, it’s easier to assassinate someone when they’re home than when they are out on the street. So the program will monitor the person’s cell phone, and when it arrives at the location that’s been determined to be his home, it will ping a message to the kill operative, who can then target that person’s house, bringing it down around their ears, regardless of who else is in the house with them. No doubt the name “Where’s Daddy?” was picked on purpose. There’s a certain grim irony to it. By killing the fathers they’re ensuring that their wives and children are slaughtered as well, and that no future generations of potential enemies will survive the attack.

This is a cynical move, about as far from conventional warfare as you can imagine. In a conventional battle, two armies fight it out in the field, both sides risking their lives. In this version of war, a person deemed a terrorist by some artificial points system can be remotely shredded, like an avatar in a computer game, along with his entire family, by someone sitting in an office somewhere several miles away, risking no more than a sore thumb.

I dare you to watch this program and not cry. I dare you to see the distress on the children’s faces and not feel your heart wrenched from your body in sorrow and anger. I dare you to see the mothers and the fathers in their anguish and fear for their children’s lives and not imagine yourself in their position. There’s one sequence in particular. A frightened baby is lying on a hospital table, crying, clearly traumatized, covered in dust. The father sings some soothing verses from the Koran, quietly stroking the baby’s chest, till the crying stops. It’s a moment of tenderness and warmth amidst the horror of war and it almost makes you believe that, as it says in our sacred books, love will win in the end. How many times has this scene, or scenes like it, been played out in Gaza this past year—people comforting each other in their distress, or saying their last goodbyes to their loved ones; children screaming, mothers wailing, fathers in despair; funerals for dead relatives, whole lineages being wiped out in a single blast, the endless search for bodies in the rubble—day in, day out, hour after hour after hour.

The people of Gaza are now the most traumatized, the most physically and psychologically abused people on earth. In other parts of the world, in other wars, people can at least flee to safety. In Gaza there’s nowhere to run: no place that can’t be bombed, no refuge, no asylum, no safety, no security. Safe zones are declared, and then violated. Tent cities of war-ravaged refugees are set alight in hospital grounds and schools in areas previously declared safe.

Israel is targeting not just Hamas, but journalists, aid workers, doctors, even children. On July 25, 45 American physicians, surgeons and nurses who’d volunteered in Gaza since October 7 wrote a letter to President Biden. “Every one of us, on a daily basis, treated pre-teen children who were shot in the head and chest,” the letter says. This is happening all over the strip and suggests that, rather than it being the work of a few rogue killers on the loose (a common occurrence in war) it’s systematic and deliberate, a policy decision taken at the highest levels of the Israeli military itself. The film documents a number of examples of snipers shooting unarmed civilians.

The film also debunks the often-repeated claim that Hamas uses civilians as human shields. There’s no evidence of that. There are, however, many documented cases of the IDF using Palestinians as human shields, and several pieces of film that make that clear. If by “human shield” you mean the fact that people who Israel deem to be Hamas fighters are often in close proximity to civilians, this is because there’s no room in Gaza for them to be anywhere else. It’s one of the most densely populated regions on the planet. But Israel, too, often locates its military installations in civilian areas. The Mossad building, for example, is in a built up area of Tel Aviv with many civilians living nearby. By the same logic, this would allow us to claim that Mossad uses civilians as human shields. No doubt, were Hezbollah to target the Mossad building and kill civilians in the process, Israel would say that they were targeting civilians. Meanwhile Israel targets supposed Hamas fighters even when they aren’t fighting, knowing that civilians are nearby and that many of them will be killed. How often, after reports of another tragedy in which dozens of people are incinerated in their tents, do we hear the Israeli spokesmen saying that they were “targeting Hamas”? After October 7 the political establishment and the western media declared unanimously that Israel had the right to defend itself. But what about the Palestinians? Don’t they have right to defend themselves too?

I’ll leave the last words to Susan Abulhawa, a Palestinian writer who appears in the film. This is what she says: “Palestinians are aware that they have been abandoned, that the world that speaks of human rights and international law is lying, that those concepts are meant for white people, or for westerners, that accountability is not meant to hold their oppressors to account, that they have been… discarded, like rubbish… The West has spent decades creating this rules-based order, and it’s finally been laid bare as a big sham, as just a way to further western interests. This is the jungle. This is the new order, where it’s just out in the open that those with power can do whatever they want.”

Follow Chris Stone on Twitter: @ChrisJamesStone

Discussion
  • This piece is essentially a review of the documentary film, Gaza, by the Al Jazeera Investigations Unit. Please watch the film before commenting. You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPE6vbKix6A I will not respond to personal insults, but will engage with people who are willing to debate respectfully. If any of my facts are wrong (it happens) I will correct them on being provided with documentary evidence. Unevidenced assertions will be ignored.

    Responses to this comment
  • The Jews are everywhere.

    Responses to this comment
  • Since when do film reviewers request that their readers watch the film before commenting? Makes no sense.

    Responses to this comment
  • This is not a “review” of the film. It's a summary of it. A review suggests that the reviewer has applied critical thinking in evaluating it, which you did not do. You write, “In the midst of battle how many fighters have time to drop their trousers to engage in sexual congress.” Are you serious? This was a mass slaughter, not a battle, which requires two sides fighting against each other. And neither was it “sexual congress,” a term applied to a consensual act. It was forcible rape against women who were considered subhuman. Maybe you should study history and learn about what happened in Nanjing, China in 1937 during what's called “The Rape of Nanjing.” Tens of thousands of Japanese “fighters” “found the time” to drop their trousers in order to rape Chinese women because, once again, it was a massacre, not a battle. But those who Hamas calls “good Muslim men” wouldn't do this? What a joke. Even if there were no rapes at all—obviously untrue—it was still an atrocity, given the fact that murder is a far more serious crime than the already serious crime of rape, about which you wrote, ”Might we not do the same?” I take this as a suggestion that you might do the same, but don't include me in your category with your “we.” Speak for yourself. Finally, you really believe Hamas doesn't use civilians as human shields? You must know that their leaders live in luxury at the Four Seasons in Qatar while their people suffer greatly, as you've just documented. Maybe you didn't hear that the wife of deceased Hamas leader, Yaya Sinwar, has a $30k handbag, while Gazans starve.

    Responses to this comment
  • The woke filth is always saying that the Ham-Ass terrorist pigs did not kill, rape, and kidnap Israelis hard enough. Israel disagrees, and slaughters the swine.

    Responses to this comment
  • "People have opinions. They wear their opinions like badges. Their sense of identity is tied up with their opinions: their sense who they are. Take away their opinions, question them, and it’s like you are questioning their very identity. They become agitated and will hold onto what they believe with even greater ferocity, especially when the cognitive dissonance kicks in and it starts to look as if their thoughts may have been manipulated. No one wants to admit that they’ve been subjected to forces beyond their control." CJ is unaware that what he wrote here applies directly to himself.

    Responses to this comment
  • CJ is percfectly aware that what he wrote applies to himself. We are all lost in this overload of disinformation and obfuscation that characterises the mass media and the internet. This is my attempt to make sense of it all. I do urge you to watch the film Beck, or check out some of the other links in this piece. Maybe you'll learn something. Or maybe not, but at least I will have tried. Interesting that you focus on “The Rape of Nanjing” in your attempt to dismantle my argument, rather than on Oct 7. This is because, as the UN stated, there is a "lack of credible evidence".

    Responses to this comment
  • I used the "we" when referring to the atrocities that were committed as an attempt to get you to use your imagination and to see the world outside of your narrow confines. Finkelstein gives the example of the Nat Turner Rebellion, but I saw something else on PBS yesterday, about the French Resistance after the Liberation. They were vicious towards those they saw as collaborators. Hundreds were killed, women who had consorted with the Nazis had their heads shaved and were publicly humiliated. The French Resistance are now seen as heroes, but the truth is always more complex. I'm not saying that we would all have acted the same, but I'm trying to get you to see that, in extreme circumstances, people's behaviour is unpredictable. The seige of Gaza has been in place for 17 years. Many of those fighters who came over the wall will have known nothing but life inside that enclave. They've been subjected to constant surveillance, occasional incursions to "mow the lawn" as they call it. Most of them are the descendants of refugees whose lands were stolen in 1948. In the Great March of Return in 2014 they tried peaceful means. They were shot at and killed in great numbers. Children and aid workers were targetted. I'm not an apologist for Hamas but you must know that Israel, and specifically Netanyahu, encouraged its creation as a counterweight to Fatah, and that Israel was authorising funding to it until recently. It's called divide and rule. There would be no resistance without occupation. Some have tried peaceful means, some have turned to violence, but the Israeli response is always the same: extreme violence, backed by the United Ststes and the western powers, for whom Israel is a useful strategic asset in the game of robbing the world of its resources, ‘a little loyal Jewish Ulster’ as Sir Roland Storrs, ex-governor of Jerusalem wrote. Did Hamas commit atrocities on Oct 7? Yes, it did. But nothing that Hamas have ever done compares to the sheer brutality and inhumanity inflicted upon the Palestinians by Israel, before and since. Every accusation is a confession, as they say. Everything that Israel accuses Hamas of doing, they have been doing, only worse. Dead babies? One baby died on October 7. How many hundreds have been slaughtered since? Rape? Ask the prisoners in Sde Teiman who have been subjected to anal rape by Israeli guards. And on and on and on. This is a society that is completely out of control, an ethno-supremicist state. Zionists really believe they are superior beings and that Palestinians are "human animals" as Yoav Gallant called them. We've seen all of this before. It's what happened in Germany in the 30s and 40s and it's happening again now. The Israelis haven't quite got to the final solution yet, but they are edging ever closer, cheered on by their supporters in the west. The stakes are high. The least you can do is to check out some of the links in the piece, to watch the film, and to make your assessments after that. I would be happy to hear your conclusions.

    Responses to this comment
  • https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147217 >> Following a 17-day visit to Israel, the UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict reported on Monday that she and a team of experts had found “clear and convincing information” of rape and sexualized torture being committed against hostages seized during the 7 October terror attacks. Pramila Patten added in a press release issued along with the report that there are also reasonable grounds to believe that such violence, which includes other “cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment”, may be continuing against those still being held by Hamas and other extremists in the Gaza Strip. <<

    Responses to this comment
  • Subsequently the UN Secretary General declined to put Hamas on a "blacklist" pending further evidence as to who committed the sexual atrocities. That was a very controversial decision but in any case does not amount to UN finding lack of evidence. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/israel-fumes-as-un-secretay-general-leaves-hamas-off-sexual-violence-blacklist/amp/

    Responses to this comment
  • Ken, that all may be true - I don't know - but it makes it all the more strange that, rather than negotiate a release of the hostages, the Israeli government would prefer to risk their lives by continuing to rain bombs down on their heads. Why would that be do you think?

    Responses to this comment
  • Do you also acknowledge that sexual violence is also being used on prisoners in Sde Teiman? Have you watched the film?

    Responses to this comment
  • Sexual violence at Sde Teidman is plausible, and should be prosecuted. I've not watched the documentary, whereas I did watch the previous one by the Al Jazeera at your recommendation and commented on it, not unfavorably. In our current exchange, I can't really get past that you dismissed sexual violence on Oct 7 with >>This is because, as the UN stated, there is a “lack of credible evidence”<< when the UN report I cited is well-known.

    Responses to this comment
  • One more thing Ken, can you also explain why Israel is blocking an independent investigation into the allegations? https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240609-israels-obstruction-of-investigation-into-7-october-rape-allegations-risks-truth-never-being-found-advocates-warn/

    Responses to this comment
  • "Pramila Patten, the UN secretary-general’s special representative on sexual violence, came in and wrote her report, which she then explained to journalists on 4 March. While saying that there were “reasonable grounds” to believe that sexual violence did take place during the 7 October attacks, the veracity and details of it could not be assessed nor could it be concluded that Hamas was directly behind it or ordered it. "She further explained that the investigation was not a legal one, as that could only be fulfilled by the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, which Israel has refused to work with."

    Responses to this comment
  • I got the quote from Wikipedia, Ken. As I said at the beginning, I'm happy to be corrected if I get things wrong. Pramila Patten also said that it could not be concluded that the sexual violence was ordered by Hamas, or that they were behind it. There needs to be an independent investigation, but Israel is blocking it. Why would that be?

    Responses to this comment
  • CJ, I have taken the trouble to find the Wiki[edia passage you used. It is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel and one of its sources is a Voice of America article that includes >> Patten said the team received full cooperation from the government of Israel and found the information presented to them to be “authentic and unmanipulated.” << https://www.voanews.com/a/un-mission-clear-and-convincing-information-exists-that-hamas-sexually-violated-women/7513624.html In any case, a reading of the (admittedly poorly written) Wikipedia paragraph should make clear that the whole thing could not be summed up as "lack of credible evidence" (Wikipedia's wording, not the U.N.'s). I'm glad you seem to recognize this.>> The UN's Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict, Pramila Patten reported in March 2024, with the "full cooperation" of the Israeli government,[12] that there was "clear and convincing information" that Israeli hostages in Gaza experienced "sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment", that there are "reasonable grounds" to believe such abuse is "ongoing"[13][14] and there was also "reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang-rape, in at least three locations."[15][16][13] The report was not a full and legal investigation but designed to "collect and verify allegations", and thus the team highlighted that their conclusion "falls below 'beyond a reasonable doubt'."[17] Consequently, later on 23 April 2024, the UN refused to acknowledge the rape allegations against Hamas and did not include the group in the blacklist of state and non-state parties guilty of sexual violence in 2023 due to the lack of credible evidence.[18][19][20] <<

    Responses to this comment
  • And now I have taken the trouble to look up what the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel has published, specifically their report of June 10, 2024 titled "Detailed findings on attacks carried out on and after 7 October 2023 in Israel.* https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session56/a-hrc-56-crp-3.pdf This is the body that Israel has not cooperated with, presumably because it was set up to investigate Israeli abuses, and perhaps Israel is wrong to have not done so. But their report, while noting Israel's lack of cooperation, makes clear that they are not in denial. Excerpt: >> The Commission documented evidence of sexual violence 52 in several locations in southern Israel on 7 October. 53 This evidence includes testimonies from credible witnesses and images of victims’ bodies displaying indications of some form of sexual violence. The Commission identified a pattern of sexual violence that has been corroborated by the digital evidence it collected and preserved. 135. Reliable witness accounts obtained by the Commission describe bodies that had been undressed, in some incidents with exposed genitals, as well as other indications of abuse, such as their hands and/or feet being tied, indicating they had been detained before their deaths, the position of the body, for example with legs spread or bent over, and signs of struggle or violence on the body, such as stab wounds, burns, lacerations and abrasions. The patterns in these witness accounts are consistent with digital footage collected and preserved by the Commission, including four victims found undressed from the waist down, as well as four cases where the bodies of victims were displayed partially undressed while being mistreated. 136. Further corroborating its findings, the Commission also received reports that many bodies taken to the Shura camp showed signs indicative of sexual violence. Some bodies were completely or partially undressed with signs of considerable violence and struggle. One witness described to the Commission receiving a body of a girl around 13 years old who was naked with signs of violence to the stomach and broken legs. << It goes on and on like this.

    Responses to this comment
  • CJ, you bring up the French liberation in the context of excusing rape in a war-like situation, but there's no mention of rape there, so you haven't made any point. The topic was rape, not shaving women's heads. Maybe you think they're equivalent. That's the suggestion, anyway. As for Nanjing, I simply mentioned that because you you suggested "fighters" (you meant murderers, because the other side was unarmed) don't have time to take their pants off in battle (it was a massacre, not a battle), a ludicrous statement by any estimation. There's no way you can be taken seriously saying things like this. Also, I want you to know that when you say "we" are all possible rapists in a situation like October 6, you are talking about yourself. You don't speak for me. Instead of talking about what "we" might do in such a situation—a copout—why don't you say what you think you might do if you "use your imagination." Be honest.

    Responses to this comment
  • Also, you said you'd make corrections if necessary. You should correct calling Oct 6 a "battle," which it was not. I've never heard of a battle in which only one side sustained casualties. You called this a film review, when it's a summary, not a review. You take all the film's points as facts, without challenging even one of them. "Sexual congress" is another error.

    Responses to this comment
  • OK Ken, thanks for your detailed investigation. I'm sure readers will find all of this of interest. Pramila Patten also said that it could not be concluded that the sexual violence was ordered by Hamas, or that they were behind it. You'll see in the text that I do not deny that rape may have occured, to quote: "This isn’t to say that rape did not occur. There was a second wave that swept into Southern Israel after the Hamas forces had brought down the fences. Most of these were civilians and a number of crimes were committed." I also linked to this article which is a critique of the New York Times piece: https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/ What no one has shown is that Hamas were involved or that sexual violence was used as a weapon of war. I've never denied atrocities, but I think we have to look at the measure of this as well: 1,200 dead, an unspecified number killed by the Israeli forces themselves on October 7, as against possibly (according to the Lancet) as many as 186,000, with starvation and disease thrown into the mix, about half of them women and children, after 17 years of seige in which Israel deliberately kept the calory count low and made occasional incursions to "mow the lawn" as they described it, killing hundreds, sometimes thousands of people. What puzzles me is that no one seems to acknowledge this, or the nearly 60 years of occupaion, or the 78 years of dispossession since the nakba, or the fact that Israel initially backed Hamas, and was authorising funding for it until recently, or the administrative detention, or the ongoing apartheir, which Desmond Tutu said was more brutal than the one experienced by South Africans. I appreciate you imput Ken, but one thing I notice is that you will slam down on me for an error or two (rightly maybe) but you don't deal with the substance of the article, which is the grave injustice that is being heaped upon the Palestinians right now.

    Responses to this comment
  • The topic wasn't rape Beck, it was atrocities committed in war. At least that's what I was referring to. It was a battle on Oct 7. Israeli army, police and security were confronted. You may want to ask why the IDF weren't there in larger numbers? On the Israeli government know the answer to that. I'm sure that Hamas would have been expecting them. Both sides sustained casualties, and, in fact, many of the people killed were killed by Israeli forces, who were firing indiscriminatly at vehicles heading towards the border, regardless of who was in them. There was also tank fire into buildings that held hostages, knowing that hostages were in there. This is all documented. Do you have any explanation for the flurry of atrocity reports about dead babies that all turned out to be false? I do take the film's points as facts, as, I suspect, you would have to do if you watched it. It is a very sober assessment based upon the Israelis own posts on TikTok. which are truly shocking to behold and reveal clear evidence of war crimes. I note your point about sexual congress but will leave it in the text. It was meant to be a fairly neutral term. Readers can assess the relative merits of our arguments by reading these comments to the side.

    Responses to this comment
  • CJ, I've acknowledged, or even pointed out, some of those points in previous discussions here. Among other things, it's appalling to me that the Netanyahu government funded Hamas (so as to focus on undermining the P.A. in the West Bank) and that there's been no formal inquiry into the lapses in Israel's defenses/intelligence. The suffering of the Palestinians, hundreds of thousands of whom have nothing to do with Hamas, is horrendous. I hope that the killing of Sinwar, which I see as highly justified, enables new negotiations, but I am not optimistic.

    Responses to this comment
  • Yeah, the Battle of the Bulge and the Battle of Oct 6. So laughable. Honestly, I don't care what you don't correct, but this is not a film review, that wasn't a battle, and sexual congress is not a synonym for rape. But your desire to use a "neutral" term in this case is telling.

    Responses to this comment
  • BTW CJ, I don't give the same weight you do to whether Oct. 7 rapists were Hamas "regulars" or "civilians" following in their path. If the US Army invaded Mexico, and then a bunch of Proud Boys or random thugs followed in the Army's path committing atrocities, the Army would have enormous responsibility for that.

    Responses to this comment
  • Beck, as I said, you may want to ask why the IDF wasn't there to defend their people. Surely this is the point of an army, and the Israeli government were warned that something was in the offing. There are only two possible conclusions: either 1) they allowed it to happen or 2) they are just plain incompetent. I'll leave you to take your pick.

    Responses to this comment
  • Ken, I'm not optimistic either. Seems to me that Israel wants to drag us all into a regional war that may end up a world war (with Ukraine and Russia also stirring in the background) and that it may be many decades before we find out the truth of these events.

    Responses to this comment
  • After 9/11, a Moroccan Muslim told me the Jews did it. You'd like this guy, CJ. If you want to know about the subterfuge Hamas employee before the attack, you could read this: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-israel-was-duped-hamas-planned-devastating-assault-2023-10-08/

    Responses to this comment
  • Wow Beck, evidence rather than rhetoric! I don't actually have an opinion on this, having heard various reports. Here's the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67082047

    Responses to this comment
  • Ken, it matters because it's the excuse they use to kill women and children. Hamas are so evil we have to get rid of them, therefore we have to starve and murder anyone who gets in the way. Remember the history. First of all it was all those baby atrocity stories, none of which were true. They had to reduce the estimates for the number of dead, from 1400 to 1200, because 200 of them were Palestinian fighters who were burnt beyond recognition. They lined up those fighters with their own dead to show how evil Hamas are. But how did they get burnt beyond recognition? Because the Israelis instituted the Hannibal directive and were killing everything that moved, unloading the payloads of several helicopter gunships at all vehicles racing to the border, with both fighters and hostages on board. They also allowed tanks to fire into buildings with hostages in them, and then blamed the resultant carnage on Hamas. Look how evil Hamas are. Evil, evil Hamas, who we nurtured and paid for. And now they are starving Northern Gaza and have named several Al Jazeera journalists as terrorists so they can target them, so that we won't see the horror they are inflicting upon the population. So it matters who did what and when. Hamas have denied it. We scoff at everything they say because, well, they are terrorists aren't they? Not like the IDF, "the most moral army in the world" as it likes to portray itself, which will kill a few dozen innocent people to get rid of one Hamas operative: this easy dehumanisation of a whole population made possible by a compliant media, which likes to lay the entire blame on Hamas and to forget about the history and the context and the years of brutality and occupation. Hamas are rapists and murderers therefore we're free to commit rape and murder. I would include links for all of the things I've said, but I think you know that it's all true.

    Responses to this comment
  • CJ, I encourage you and others to read the report I cited, from the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel, a body that cannot by any measure be seen as an apologist for Israel. https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session56/a-hrc-56-crp-3.pdf A few relevant excerpts: >> The conflict between Hamas military wing and other Palestinian armed groups, on the one hand, and Israel, on the other, constitutes an armed conflict to which international humanitarian law applies. During an armed conflict, international human rights law applies concurrently. A fundamental principle of international law is that unlawful action by one party to an armed conflict does not justify unlawful action by another party. The Commission has previously found that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory is unlawful. Palestinians therefore have a right to oppose that unlawful occupation but in doing so they must act in accordance with international law, including international humanitarian law and international human rights law. The unlawfulness of the Israeli occupation does not justify unlawful action by Palestinians in resistance. Equally, unlawful action by Palestinians opposing the occupation does not justify unlawful action by Israel. << >> The Commission concludes on reasonable grounds that serious violations and abuses of international human rights law were committed by members of Hamas military wing and of other Palestinian armed groups in Israel, and by civilians from Gaza taking part in hostilities, in the attack on 7 October 2023. The violations include the violations of the right to life102 and the right not to be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.103 Furthermore, the Commission also finds on reasonable grounds that members of Hamas military wing and of other Palestinian armed grouped violated the right to liberty and security of the civilians captured and detained104 and unlawfully interfered with the civilians’ privacy, family and home.105 307. Serious human rights violations have been committed against women and girls, including several acts that deprive women and girls of fundamental human rights, such as the right to life, the right to be free from cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, and the right to liberty and security of person. 106 Israeli women have been subjected to gender-based violence such as physical, sexual and psychological violence, including threats of such acts, coercion and arbitrary deprivation of liberty. <<

    Responses to this comment
  • Also: >> Command responsibility 304. The Commission emphasises that military commanders and political leaders may be held criminally responsible for the acts of subordinates who were under their effective command and control. There are two circumstances under which criminal liability arises by virtue of command responsibility: where subordinates commit criminal acts pursuant to the direct orders of their commanders; where commanders who know or ought to know about the actual or possible commission of criminal acts by subordinates fail to take measures to prevent the subordinates from committing those acts. 305. The Commission has established the names and identities of individuals responsible for the planning, ordering, and execution of the attack on Israel on 7 October 2023. The Commission finds, on reasonable grounds, that these individuals either ordered the commission of operations and acts that constituted war crimes of the nature described in this report or, at the very least, knew or should have known that subordinates under their effective command and control were committing or were likely to commit crimes in Israeli kibbutzim and other locations and failed to take any measures within their power to prevent or repress the commission of such crimes. The Commission concludes on reasonable grounds that the individuals who bear the most responsibility for the international crimes, violations and abuses that it has investigated in this conference room paper include senior members of the political and military leadership of Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups and of the Palestinian Joint Operations Room. The Commission will continue its investigations focusing on individual criminal responsibility and command responsibility. <<

    Responses to this comment

Register or Login to leave a comment